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Subject no sound with opensuse 11



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lespaul
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 2:34 PM

hi,

i have a problem with tuxguitar on my opensuse11. i installed it from the repos(1.0 final). i also installed timidity. but i have no sound.
in tools > settings > sound > midi port
i can only choose Midi Through Port-0 [14:0] or Java Sound Synthesizer
on ubuntu i could choose something like "midi port 1", so another port not listed in opensuse. maybe because the snd-seq module is not loaded? how do load it on opensuse11?
i just see that there is no file "/etc/modules"


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Julian
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 2:44 PM

Hello,

> maybe because the snd-seq.....
No, if the module wouldn't loaded, so you were able to see Midi throught, and java sound synth ports.

The problem is that Midi Throught port never play sounds as default.
By installing timidity is a solution.. but did you start timidity ?? ( under ubuntu, it start's as default )
try on a terminal:
timidity -iA -Os

and then you should able to select a timidity port.

by other hand, if you select "Java Sound Synthesizer", it should play sounds (but not nice as timidity).. doesn't it ?


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lespaul
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 2:52 PM

> by other hand, if you select "Java Sound Synthesizer", it should play sounds (but not nice as timidity).. doesn't it ?

no

> timidity -iA -Os

yes, than i can select a port and the sound works


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lespaul
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 3:00 PM

and the overdriven/distorted guitar just sounds like the clean guitar :/


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Julian
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 3:11 PM

This is timidity configuration.
tuxguitar don't play sounds.. it's an external synth ( timidity on your case ) who do that.


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lespaul
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 3:26 PM

and what could i do now to start automatically timidity and that the overdriven/distorted guitar doesn't sound like the clean one?


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Julian
Post: Jun 24th 2008 at 3:43 PM

well.
if you want timidity start when you boot your PC, you need to add a script on /etc/init.d/timidity like debian does.
you should see on your OS documentations how you can do that.
another option, is to start it when your "desktop" init, with autostarted applications.

About timidity sounds, i'm not a timidity expert.
i can only tell you, it have a configuration file, placed very often on /etc/timidity/timidity.cfg
where you can set your soundfont/pats
but ofcourse, before set a new soundfont configuration, you need to download one.
I suggest you search about how to configure timidity on google. you'll found better answers than mine.


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lespaul
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 3:17 PM

ok, i was able to start timidity automatically with every login and a was able to get a better sound for timidity.

but there is one problem left:

when i play a tab file, the notes first become red and just a little bit later i hear the notes. this is really annoying. is there a solution for, that the red color and the sound come together?

when i start timidity with a terminal with "timidity -iA -Os", i get this message:

lespaul@linux-fjih:~> timidity -iA -Os
Requested buffer size 32768, fragment size 8192
ALSA pcm 'default' set buffer size 32768, period size 8192 bytes
TiMidity starting in ALSA server mode
Opening sequencer port: 128:0 128:1 128:2 128:3

and when i play files with tuxguitar, i get this message below the first message:

Requested buffer size 32768, fragment size 8192
ALSA pcm 'default' set buffer size 32768, period size 8192 bytes


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Julian
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 4:40 PM

A software synthesizer latency goes on the same hand of the sound quality.

a midi synth play sounds on real time.
it receive "midi events" (note_on, note_off, etc) and process them on that exactly momment.
So, if you have a very good quality, it's normal if you have a delay beetween event sended and event played.
Ofcourse, it also depends on your CPU speed.

So you should configure timidity thinking on all things instead of the best quality only.

Note that the best quality is not same as "nice sounds"
You can have a very hard soundfont + synth config, but you don't like the sounds.

About timidity config, you can check about effects ( reverb, delay, etc)
On my distribution at "/etc/timidity/timidity.cfg" there is a line starting with:
## If you have a slow CPU, uncomment these:

If you uncomment lines bellow (and restart timidity) you'll get it more faster but with lesser quality.

By other hand, you should check if your soundfont/pats are very hard or not. what are you using ?

At last, you can also test "fluidsynth", another software synthesizer. Maybe it get better latency.


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Anonymous
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 6:32 PM

the original timidity.cfg looks like this:

##############################################################################
# $Id: timidity.cfg,v 1.4 1999/12/10 21:02:56 greglee Exp $
#
# Instrument configuration file for timidity
#
# Specify library directory: dir
#
# - Multiple library directories may be given. The ones given last will be
# searched first so you can override them in later configuration files.
# Extra configuration files and MIDI files will also be searched in these
# directories.
#
# Set tone bank or drum set to modify: bank
# drumset
#
# Map program number to patch map:
#
# - If the patch can't be found in the library directories, TiMidity will
# search again with ".pat" appended to the name.
# Programs without a loaded patch will be silent, except that for
# banks/drumsets >0, the corresponding patch in bank/drumset 0 will
# be used (if one exists).
#
# Read another configuration file: source
#

##############################################################################
# If you've moved things around since compiling, uncomment and edit this to
# point to the library directory:
#
# dir /opt/kde2/share/apps/kmidi/config
#
dir /usr/share/timidity

##############################################################################
# This sets up the default patches

source piano+guitar.cfg
source drums.cfg

##############################################################################
# End of configuration file




i downloaded this file to get a better sound
http://alsa.opensrc.org/8MBGMSFX.SF2


so i changed my timidity.cfg like that:

##############################################################################
# $Id: timidity.cfg,v 1.4 1999/12/10 21:02:56 greglee Exp $
#
# Instrument configuration file for timidity
#
# Specify library directory: dir
#
# - Multiple library directories may be given. The ones given last will be
# searched first so you can override them in later configuration files.
# Extra configuration files and MIDI files will also be searched in these
# directories.
#
# Set tone bank or drum set to modify: bank
# drumset
#
# Map program number to patch map:
#
# - If the patch can't be found in the library directories, TiMidity will
# search again with ".pat" appended to the name.
# Programs without a loaded patch will be silent, except that for
# banks/drumsets >0, the corresponding patch in bank/drumset 0 will
# be used (if one exists).
#
# Read another configuration file: source
#

##############################################################################
# If you've moved things around since compiling, uncomment and edit this to
# point to the library directory:
#
# dir /opt/kde2/share/apps/kmidi/config
#
#dir /usr/share/timidity
dir /home/akim/Documents
soundfont 8MBGMSFX.SF2
##############################################################################
# This sets up the default patches

#source piano+guitar.cfg
#source drums.cfg

##############################################################################
# End of configuration file


what is fluidsynth? can you recommend good "sound bank" for timidity?(good trade-off between quality and performance?)


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lespaul
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 6:35 PM

sorry i forgot to enter my nickname,i posted that

i have a amd athlon 64 x2 4400+ processor


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Johnny
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 7:19 PM

On your computer you can use large soundfonts without any trouble. I would personally recommend you this one:
http://www.geocities.jp/shansoundfont/


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lespaul
Post: Jun 28th 2008 at 7:40 PM

how do i use this file?


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Johnny
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 4:16 AM

** Please use sfArk to decompress the soundfont

So it means you need that kind of utiliity to get .sf2 file you can use.


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lespaul
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 6:40 AM

thanks, it sounds good, but i still have the same problem:

>when i play a tab file, the notes first become red and just a little bit later i hear the notes. this is really annoying. is there a solution for, that the red color and the sound come together?


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lespaul
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 6:45 AM

do you know which soundbank is used when i download timidity in ubuntu or debian sid? on these systems it workedwith the sound and the color. or should i move my soundbank in another directory(actually it's in my home directory)


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Johnny
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 2:37 PM

Default soundfont library for Timidity is called "freepats". It sounds OK, but a bit incomplete, and this one I recommended sounds a little bit better.

About highlighting latency, I also have it, but I don't find it so annoying. It is about 1/20 of second, you shouldn't bother...


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Julian
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 2:39 PM

Hi,

Try add this lines to your timidity.cfg:
opt EFresamp=d
opt EFvlpf=d
opt EFreverb=d
opt EFchorus=d
opt EFdelay=d
opt anti-alias=d
opt EWPVSETOZ
opt p32a
opt s32kHz
opt fast-decay

> do you know which soundbank is used when i download timidity in ubuntu or debian sid
It's called "freepats", the config is not same as for soundfonts, you should see here for default configurations:
http://timidity.s11.xrea.com/index.en.html

Take a look to this page:
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/UbuntuStudio/DapperPreparation
At "Timer Resolution" section, it's recommended to set "dev.rtc.max-user-freq" to 1024


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lespaul
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 7:35 PM

>Try add this lines to your timidity.cfg:

doesn't help

>About highlighting latency, I also have it, but I don't find it so annoying. It is about 1/20 of second, you shouldn't bother...

in my case i think it's longer and it's really annoying :(

the links you gave me about freepats are too complicated for me :( and not all debian commands work on suse.

i try now to use freepats on opensuse, i followed this link
http://thinker.rubay.de/archives/7-Software-MIDI-synthesizer-for-SuSE.html

but when i type in the terminal timidity -iA -Os, i get this message:

lespaul@linux-fjih:~> timidity -iA -Os
*** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Connection refused
Can't open pcm device 'default'.
Couldn't open ALSA pcm device (`s')
lespaul@linux-fjih:~>

when i type timidity -iA, i get this message:

lespaul@linux-fjih:~> timidity -iA
*** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Connection refused
TiMidity starting in ALSA server mode
Opening sequencer port: 129:0 129:1 129:2 129:3

in both cases i have no sound in tuxguitar


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lespaul
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 7:41 PM

ok, freepats work now, but i can't get rid of this highlighting latency problem. what are generally the sources of that problem?


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Johnny
Post: Jun 29th 2008 at 10:53 PM

What Java VM distribution/version are you using?
What TuxGuitar distribution did you install?


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 4:07 AM

java version "1.6.0_06"
Java(TM) SE Runtime Environment (build 1.6.0_06-b02)
Java HotSpot(TM) 64-Bit Server VM (build 10.0-b22, mixed mode)

i use tuxguitar 1.0 from the packman repos in opensuse


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 10:35 AM

=> i installed ubuntu

thank you anyway, learned a lot :)


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Julian
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 3:02 PM

Johnny:
i don't think JVM version have sence here.
Timidity is used by tuxguitar-alsa ( C native library ).
by other hand, tuxguitar first send the MIDI event, and then paint the screen (so when the note is painting on the screen, timidity already receibed the event before).
So it can be a JVM problem, only if you "heard" the notes before see them on the screen.

lespaul:
I don't think install ubuntu is the solution.
You should be free to choice your OS, and have MIDI too.

> what is fluidsynth?
fluidsynth is another software synthesizer ( like timidity )
On my system, it get best latency than timidity.
It work with soundfonts, and you can run it as:
fluidsynth /home/akim/Documents/8MBGMSFX.SF2

Ofcourse, i taked "/home/akim/Documents/8MBGMSFX.SF2" as reference as what i saw on your timidity conf..

> *** PULSEAUDIO: Unable to connect: Connection refused
Well, i readed pulseaudio have problems with timidity ( also with fluidsynth ).
But i don't know how to solve the problem (only killing timidity and use Alsa as default).

> and not all debian commands work on suse.
true, but there are allways alternatives :)
So, what is the command you tried ?

What is the result of:
sysctl -q dev.rtc.max-user-freq


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 4:11 PM

>I don't think install ubuntu is the solution.
You should be free to choice your OS, and have MIDI too.

i know, but that latency problem was really annoying.
maybe i was a little bit fast, i'll reinstall opensuse(i do not really like ubuntu...)

>fluidsynth is another software synthesizer ( like timidity )
On my system, it get best latency than timidity.
It work with soundfonts, and you can run it as:
fluidsynth /home/akim/Documents/8MBGMSFX.SF2

Ofcourse, i taked "/home/akim/Documents/8MBGMSFX.SF2" as reference as what i saw on your timidity conf..

i will try that

>So, what is the command you tried ?

i can't remember :)
but i will retry it now on opensuse


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 5:08 PM

i try now fluidsynth and tuxguitar on opensuse

i downloaded the sf2 which Johnny recommended me.

this happens when i want to start fluidsynth:

akim@linux-5u73:~/Desktop> fluidsynth '/home/akim/Desktop/SGM-V2.01.sf2'
fluidsynth: symbol lookup error: fluidsynth: undefined symbol: fluid_lash_extract_args


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Julian
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 5:32 PM

did you installed fluidsynth from opensuse repositories ?

If yes, i suggest you report it as a bug to package mantainers.


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Johnny
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 5:57 PM

I only noticed that you have ' characters in your command, and Julian doesn't. Maybe that's the problem. :)


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Julian
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 6:18 PM

no that is not the problem. ( i already tested add ' ' here, and it works )
"Undefined symbol: fluid_lash_extract_args" is like a "No such function".
it seems the .c sources was builded with older header files ?
or maybe the file "fluid_lash.c" wasn't included.
This is fluid_lash.c, the file what have "fluid_lash_extract_args" function
http://fluidsynth.resonance.org/trac/browser/trunk/fluidsynth/src/fluid_lash.c?rev=102

Fluidsynth has an option to disable lash.
i'm not sure if by diabling it "fluid_lash_extract_args" will be skipped.
but you can test if it works:
fluidsynth -l /home/akim/Desktop/SGM-V2.01.sf2

If not, you'll need to rebuild fluidsynth i think.


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 6:43 PM

that's really strange:

the first time i had opensuse 11 installed, it was the gnome version, and i had the latency problem.
now i installed the kde3 version and everything works fine, timidity, johnny's cool soundbank, and the latency is perfect. i can even watch a youtube movie at the same time when i'm playing a tab file, i hear both o.O (with gnome, either youtube worked or tuxguitar worked, on suse and on ubuntu)


thank you for the great support Julian and Johnny


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Julian
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 6:46 PM

Only to know, does fluidsynth work with "-l" parameter ?


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lespaul
Post: Jun 30th 2008 at 7:34 PM

no, i got the same error


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lespaul
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 11:47 AM

Julian, you use ubuntu 8.04, isn't it?
Are you able to play youtube videos(do you use adobe flash?) and tabs with tuxguitar at the same time?


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Julian
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 2:00 PM

Hi,
yes i have ubuntu 8.04, and Debian testing.
i don't have problems running a lot a sound apps here.
This is a known OSS problem, but it don't happen for all soundcards.
By the way, that problem can happen only if you use Java Sound Api. ( i'm sure you have "Java Sound Synthesizer" selected as MIDI Port )
But it don't happen with alsa ports, like timidity is.


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lespaul
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 2:14 PM

I just ask because on my opensuse 11 it works fine, but with ubuntu i wasn't able to watch youtube videos and play tuxguitar files at the same time, I used timidity(I'm sure).
I will test it know, I install ubuntu on a little partition and report(anyway, I have to test many things on ubuntu, if they work^^)


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lespaul
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 4:19 PM

yes, i still can't watch youtube videos and listen to tuxguitar files at the same time in ubuntu. i can't hear either youtube or tuxguitar. i use timidity with freepats


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Julian
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 4:29 PM

Maybe the problem is "pulse audio".
Ubuntu as default (i just install ubuntu server, and my preferred packages ) cames with pulse audio, and i readed on a lot of sites, pulse audio have very problems with timidity, fluidsynth, and also flash.
if you can use timidity, so that is not the problem. but maybe you have the problem with flash (used on youtube).

Just type "hardy flash" on google, and you'll see what i'm talking about.

I readed on some sites about "libflashsupport" solve the problem.
sudo apt-get install libflashsupport


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lespaul
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 5:34 PM

i have this problem with libflashsupport installed. when i switch from pulseaudio to alsa, i still have the same problem.


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Julian
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 5:40 PM

Did you restart timidity after switch to alsa ?

How did you make the switch ?

is maybe pulse still running ?
ps ax | grep pulse


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lespaul
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 5:49 PM

lespaul@ubuntu:~$ ps ax | grep pulse
12486 ? Sl 0:00 /usr/bin/pulseaudio --log-target=syslog
12489 ? S 0:00 /usr/lib/pulseaudio/pulse/gconf-helper
12733 pts/0 R+ 0:00 grep pulse
lespaul@ubuntu:~$

>How did you make the switch ?
in system>preferences>audio i changed everything to alsa

>Did you restart timidity after switch to alsa ?
zes


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Julian
Post: Jul 9th 2008 at 5:54 PM

Well, pulse audio process is running.
maybe "system>preferences>audio" needs an X restart.

I don't use gnome, so not really sure how it does it.
but i think, it just add an "autostarted" application.
so start pulse when gnome start.


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