Tux Guitar

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Subject tablature too static



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raffamaiden
Post: Sep 2nd 2008 at 3:44 PM

i noticed the tablature are too static. let's see an example. i write a tablature of 15 notes, the duration of every note is 1/4 (tempo 4/4). now i listen to the song and i find out that the duration of the 5th note is not correct. currently it is 1/4 but it should be 2/4. i select the note and click on the "half note" button on the toolbar, it don't let me change the duration. i have to erase all the notes from 6th to 15th, change the duration of the 5th by clicking on the "half note" button and then write the missing notes back. this is very frustating. you should allow duration changes also if there are other notes after


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Julian
Post: Sep 2nd 2008 at 3:57 PM

It is not because you have after or before notes.
it is because you have a "4/4" time signature.
that means, you can't add more than 4 quarter beats peer measure.
if you need to add more notes, so change the time signature.


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raffamaiden
Post: Sep 2nd 2008 at 4:34 PM

yes i know what is tempo. the problem is that when you transcribe a song you can get wrong on the correct note measure and realize after that the note has a different duration, shorter or longer (in fact it happens very often if you are a beginner). if you need such a modification, you need to erase all the notes after or tuxguitar don't let you change the note duration.

this don't happen in guitar pro. it lets you change the note duration breaking the time signature (summing every note in a measure give a result > time signature).
the background of this measure become red (meaning the tempo was broke). when playback in such a condition guitar pro plays 4 beats per measure, if that particular measure has more than 4 beats it stops at the 4th.

then if you are sure of your new note duration, obviously you can't break the tempo. then guitar pro helps you. it has an option (under tools menu) called "arrange measures". it will re-arrange the song.

in the previous example (the first post i wrote), the first measure contains the first 4 notes, every 1/4, all correct (4 * 1/4 = 4/4). the second measure is not correct, it contains 4 notes and the first (the 5th) is 2/4 (an half tone instead of a quater tone). The first (2/4),second (1/4) and third (1/4) notes are left in the second measure (2/4 + 1/4 + 1/4 = 4/4), the fourth note is translated from the second to the third measure. the same for the rest of the measures (the exceed notes are translated from 3rd to 4th measure)

result = your song contain some additional measures (containing the translated notes from the last one) but the 3rd note is now an half tone and not a quarter. in the "additional measures", the missing beats (if any) are filled with pauses

i'd like to see a similar tool "arrange measures" in tuxguitar

another request: multiple notes selection


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Julian
Post: Sep 2nd 2008 at 4:53 PM

> yes i know what is tempo
Warning, it is called "time signature"
tempo is another thing.

TuxGuitar and GuitarPro are different applications. with different plans.
TuxGuitar plans (yes, it need a lot of work to be ready) try to be automatic, "auto completing" silences (guitar pro only do that if you remove a note).
to autocomplete silences you need a perfect measure.
it's impossible to fill a 4/4 measure if it contains wrong beats.

by other hand, you can allways check "where is the error".
If you need to add a half, and you can so what you need is to see where is the wrong not that don't allow you add it.
so if you find it, you can change that note duracion, move a beat if is necesarry and set the half duration.

now, what is missing on tuxguitar (and it's planned todo ) is a "move" tool, to allow you move notes but on all track instead on a measure only.
with that tool, if you did a mistake and made more notes than timesignature allow, you'll can easily move the notes right.

So this are 2 different things.
1_ allow a tool to move notes when you need (Planned to do)
2_ let measure do ain't musical time signatures (Is not an option for the plans of tuxguitar)


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Anonymous
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 9:55 AM

>by other hand, you can allways check "where is the error".
>If you need to add a half, and you can so what you need is >to see where is the wrong not that don't allow you add it.
>so if you find it, you can change that note duracion, move >a beat if is necesarry and set the half duration.

well this should not mean necessarily another note is wrong. if a note is a quarter and it should be an half, it doesn't mean necessarily that another note that is a quater should be a eight, or another note that is a half should be a quarter, only to make a gap to allow the first note to be an half.

tuxguitar "move tool" should allow you to improve the duration of a note moving the others to the right creating new measures (eventually filling the missing beats with pauses in that measures), without touching at all the duration of the other notes


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raffamaiden
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 10:06 AM

sorry forgot the name


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Julian
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 12:07 PM

> if a note is a quarter and it should be an half,
> it doesn't mean necessarily that another note
> that is a quater should be a eight
ofcourse, It is true, it depends on you composition.
but there are another issues. a music score must follow some laws.

if a time signature have 4/4 measure of a 120 tempo.
So measuer must finish on 2 seconds" (ofcourse human is not a machine, and there are feelings when someone play that make that tempos different)

So, is true what you say, only you know what duration have notes of your piece.
but if they togheter take more than that 2 seconds, so you are doing a mistake.
You'll need to think, how somebody would read your score (without listen it, and without know the piece he is to play) if the score don't follow the music specs.

On the other hand, i'm writting multivoice support now.
what allow you write 2 different voices (for now limited to 2)
That will allow you write things like.
something like (n = note, s = silence):
n2/4--------|-n2/4--------|
s1/4-|-n1/4-|-n1/4-|-n1/4-|


But the difference of multivoice scores, is that you'll have a silence if you need to add a note 1 beat after a half beat. that is the way used for who read score know "when" he must play the note.
If the silence is missing, so who read it, may play the note 2 beats after the half.

Do you ever read a score what you never listen ?
You should try that to understand what i mean.


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Anonymous
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 6:10 PM

>but if they togheter take more than that 2 seconds, so you >are doing a mistake.

that's the point. in such a condition tuxguitar should play only the first 2 seconds for that measure (wich are the first 4 beats) and then switch to the next measure ignoring the rest of the notes, but it should STILL allow the change, also if it breaks the "time signature", meaning summing the notes duration in a measure give a result major than the time signature

the mistake should then be fixed with the "move tool", that will create new measures in the score wich will contain the translated notes

since my english is not well, i will make an example (4/4) P=pause :

1/4 - 2/4 - 1/4 | 2/4 - 2/4 |

ok...ops..made a mistake on the third note, it should be an half

1/4 - 2/4 - 2/4 | 2/4 - 2/4 |

time signature broke. use the move tool

1/4 - 2/4 - 1/4 | 1/4 - 2/4 - 1/4 | 1/4 - p3/4
^legato^ ^legato^
still the same note

there is a new measure, but the song is always the same, the time signature is the same, all the measures are correct and not break the time signature, and the third note now is an half (because of the legato). just a pause at the end of the song (wich you can ignore at all) to complete the last measure. ever if you haven't listen it, you know how to play it.


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raffamaiden
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 6:15 PM

re-forgot the name

BTW it erases the spaces, i will rewrite the last "tablature"


time signature broke. use the move tool

1/4 - 2/4 - 1/4 | 1/4 - 2/4 - 1/4 | 1/4 - p3/4
_____________^legato^__________^legato^

still the same note in the legatos

if a legato is applied to the same note (all C or all D) you play only one time that note and it's duration is the sum of all the components (1/4 + 1/4 = 2/4). this is why the third note is now an half and no time signature was broke


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raffamaiden
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 6:16 PM

bah.....
the legatos are between 3rd and 4th and between 6th and 7th


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Julian
Post: Sep 3rd 2008 at 6:47 PM

The graphics that you show here, is exactly what move tool will do. so we take about same issue here.

But, there are little things on your description that i am not agree:
* there is a new measure, but the song is always the same
* ever if you haven't listen it, you know how to play it.

Analize this case please:
* You are playing guitar 1
* I'm playing guitar 2
* the score have 2 measures of "4/4"
* Your track, have 5 ticks on measure 1.
* My track starts with an empty measure.
* Both tracks have a whole chord on tick 1 of measure 2.

Now we can play the song.
but what happen ? when i play the whole chord, you still are on the first measure.
so our end chords didn't sound synchronized
if first measure would have a "5/4" time signature, i would wait 1 tick more to play may chord.
So do you still think it's the same measure ?

Try don't make the mistake to think all scores are equal to read.
there are a lot of conditions what can make impossible to read a nad time signatured score.

there are people (i don't know how to call them on english) who read multiple tracks at same time to manage an orchesta.
One thing is to see note durations.
other complety different is see measure durations.
this kind of people can't follow scores if measure 1 of track 1 have 5 ticks while on track 2 same measure have 4 ticks


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Dan from San Diego
Post: Sep 4th 2008 at 9:50 PM

I made an entry in the help forum, but then discovered this thread which is exactly what I was asking about.

The feature is needed not to create a score that when declared finished cannot be played, or which is syntactically not coherent.

The desired feature is to help a human being do data entry.
You have created the analogy of a text processor that doesn't allow the author to insert a word after typing the first draft, reading it back, and realizing they left out a word, or need to substitute two words for one, or one word for two. They have to retype the page.

I guess your future "move tool" is the answer.
When might that be expected to show up?


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Connor
Post: Jun 17th 2009 at 3:03 AM

i too would like to see a tool where you can move notes/whole sections of a song if you want to include it somewhere else.

putting it simply, a copy/cut and paste mechanism


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